DISCUSS: No. 15 Seton Hall collapses in second half to Rutgers

Connect with SHUHoops.com:

Seton Hall dropped a shocker to their archrivals. It was not good.

I assume this as I’m posting from a remote cabin with no WiFi. I apologize.

I saw the score at the half and figured it was business as usual. Refreshed the score with two minutes to play and was stunned. Fill me in, rant, call for Willard to be fired, etc.

  • cali jack

    The team was out of communication also!!!For seniors a very low BB IQ.KC is not a PG and we can only hope that JW rises to the occasion.

  • slats33

    KC kept shooting and missing and shooting and missing (4-17 FG I think).Delgado just either refused to or forgot how to box out. Don’t tell me he was tired either. Rodriguez had foul trouble early in the second half and was a non factor. Bad refs. Bad coaching. Little to no fan support. Impressive Rutgers fan support. Piekell is a better game coach than Willard. I can’t believe he let Carrington keep shooting. So much for “protecting what’s earned” They earned their way out of the top 25. It was a total disgrace.

  • 11yearplan

    The team mailed it in after the 10 minute mark of the first half. Despite the refs taking the game out of their hands (these Big 10 refs called 3x as many fouls on SHU and missed some bad ones committed by RU) and allowing the crowd noise and pink pony trash talk to get into their heads, they are significantly better than RU and should have beaten them. After allowing RU to draw even at 54-54, SHU goes on a 9-0 run and instead of putting the game away, they stood around the basket and allowed RU to out hustle them for rebounds, and hit uncontested layups and somewhat contested shots. As far as I could tell, only Ish (10 points) Powell and Cale came to play the whole game. RU shot 65% from the foul line and less than 40% from the field. If the Pirates made the extra pass in the last 5 minutes, instead of just chucking the ball up, they win by 15.

    Our weak spot is being ranked as our boys start to believe their press clippings.

    However all teams have clinkers and I believe our Pirates can learn from this. With Walker back and a full 40 minutes of hustle, this is nothing more than a bad taste that will go away shortly.

    BTW: Judging on this game, the Big 10 Network is second rate. Very few camera angles and no replays.

    • Matty P

      Not sure if you watched the Big 10 Network on cable or through a stream, but I was attempting to watch it through a stream and it was practically unwatchable. The game kept skipping forwards and backwards to the point where I was missing 1-2 possessions and trying to figure out what happened.

      • 11yearplan

        I watched it on cable. I did not have the problems you had but, in addition to the my comments above, the announcers were second rate.

  • VinBick

    Reading the criticism here may be another required wake up call for the Pirates. This was a terrible loss, but with renewed determination, a game that should be simply reviewed and noted to be a learning experience in a long season.

    The coaching staff will certainly be addressing individual player’s weaknesses today.

    A record of 11-2 in the OOC portion of the schedule is not going to wreck the season. Not a bad spot to be in heading into a brutal Big East Conference schedule. The Hall cannot afford another poor performance the rest of the way, though. There will be a few more losses in conference games, but playing competitively for 40 minutes is essential against the big guys.

    • slats33

      I really hope this was just a hiccup on the way to multiple wins in the NCAA’s but this was really ugly. Politi and the 47 or so Star Ledger Rutgers beat reporters are all over this. It’s embarrassing. Hope they ‘rebound’.

      • VinBick

        The Ledger’s on line sight ignores Seton Hall for the most part. The last time I purchased their written rag was when it sold for a nickel! The New York Post and the Daily News have much better sports writers.

  • z06

    I would agree the refs didn’t help us that much ,but this isn’t the end of the World lost for the Pirates yes they should have one,it look like like they ran out of Gas in the second half this will happen again a few more times.Need to get ready for the Big East and win on the road and must sweep on our home court it will be a Dog Fight in the Big East.As for the Rankings I really don’t get
    Caught up in the Up and down of the teams .we will see what Happen

  • Andrew Herbst

    I wasn’t able to see the game. I’m glad I missed it. I hope this is a good wakeup call for us. This could be good motivation for us going forward.

  • cali jack

    Interesting that theres some common threads in the two losses.FT % was 55% and made -11 FT versus competitor.More than the score differential io both games.Averaged 12 assists and 17 turnovers.Shot ball better in first half than second half.These are not anomalies but rather who we are.We are not good enough to play a poor game and beat a good team at home or away or a mediocre team on the road.

  • Mike Walsh

    Reading some of these comments makes me laugh. Seton Hall is not in trouble, just need to make some adjustments. Getting Walker back will help the offense, hope it happens soon. This was an intense game, in front of an intense crowd, against a team that wanted it a little more. I don’t think we will drop out of the top 25, as number 18, 19 and 22 lost today to mediocre teams. RU took 23 more foul shots than us and that is a hard stat to overcome. I think that our emotions got the best of us. I’ll take 9-2, hope for 2 more non-conference wins, and look forward to Big East play. Too many Chicken Little’s posting.

    • PadrePirate

      With you, MW. They got outplayed in the 2H, before an energizing home-court crowd by a team who showed more heart and determination, period. No drama.

      A little sting like this can only be good for our guys who have received a lot of hype. What bothers me is KW’s inability to make in-game adjustments when the team is struggling. Part of the fun of college hoops is the more emotional, streaky play, but good coaches can turn that around. That and the sloppy TO’s bug me.

  • kjs2009

    People need to relax. I’m very disappointed, but it’s more about March than it is about this one game. This team has been resilient the last 2 years, and expect the same this year.

    Obviously there was some bad stuff in this one, but you can bubble it up to them losing steam in the 2nd half (turnovers, bad shots, losing the rebound battle) and Rutgers keeping up the intensity. Rutgers has holes, but they were impressive today. I think they will get to the NCAA tournament soon, and might not be as bad as people think this year.

    Sanogo and Powell both had the best games of their careers.

    It was weird seeing Delgado have an off day offensively. This was the first time this year where I wasn’t confident that an Angel touch in the post would lead to a high % shot. This team plays with swag and talks, but I think it might have drained them by the end of the game, especially Angel.

    Maybe we are more of a #15-#25 team than a top 10 team (that would have won this)? They have the talent but need to be more poised to make that jump.

  • Ardy

    Disheartening to watch SH lose games they should win! If they don’t play as a TEAM any High school will be able to beat them. Again the MP kid was hot in the 1st half and in the 2H he only had 3 shots when he was hot they went away from him again. I was screaming at my TV. Soon as they stated playing BUDDY BALL(18 turnovers) and not BASKETBALL SH lost their momentum. They were not rebounding on either end. On one play RU got 4 offensive rebounds in a row on one play. REALLY? They let RU get into their heads and they lost focus.
    KW needs to rethink that mass substitution strategy. Bringing 3-4 cold guys into a heated game all at once doesn’t seem to work to well. Maybe he could space them out a minute or 2.
    Since MP was hot KW said he had over 7 new plays. Were they just for Desi or for whoever is hot at the time? How could a player(senior) shoot 4-17 and not realize when it’s time to stop shooting, point guard or not!!! It seemed strange to see SH start going to MP for 3 in the final 2 plays after they shut him out and SH didn’t score for 6min. It was like bringing in Randall Cunningham on 3rd downs to get the 1st down, then take him out. They are going to need to include the MP kid going forward. It’s time for some REAL TALK about the elephant in the room or it may be over.

    • cali jack

      KW is certainly no Bob Knight or PJ.In game adjustments are minimal and there are no player consequences for poor play.Maybe because theres such a drop off from starters to subs he has little choice but to play thru the mistakes.

    • slats33

      Agreed. It was amazing to watch KW (finally) call a time out and draw up a play for Carrington to shoot a bomb three. Powell is the best player on the team. He needs the ball. Cale has real athletic ability too. I don’t see him developing under this coaching staff. I realize ncaa division 1 hoops coaching is not an easy job, but some of the stuff today was just bonkers.

    • Bob Murphy

      Khadeen didn’t have a good shooting game – an understatement. But in this offense, you need to think you’re making the next one. You shoot the shots that come in the offense. Sometimes he forces too much – Desi does too, but he is more athletic in his shooting, so he makes more. I do think that once the league games begin, we may see people dropping off Khadeen to stop his drive, especially left, and conceding the jump shot or 3. He needs to prove he can make a higher percentage. Hopefully he will do that.

  • SHU95

    A tough loss yesterday that had many aspects of basketball both physical & mental coming together at once. Credit Rutgers for playing scrappy & hitting big shots down the stretch. I was very impressed with their Freshman guard.
    Ish’s vintage performance and a really eye opening game by Myles Cale are unfortunately overshadowed by the outcome. We had several opportunities to put that game away. We got sloppy on offense for basically the final 10 min. Angel & Deeno were ‘forcing it’. I think they left Desi on the bench too long. I think they had too much to say after last years win.
    A glance at the scores from yesterday’s action reminds us that just about anyone can beat anyone on a given night. Rutgers is not a bad team, We have to come to play 40 min every game. I think we’ll be fine, though that one stings.

  • Mike Walsh

    Some of the seniors do too much trash talking, humility will take this team a long way. I was always told to give your opponent praise and no opportunity for motivation.

    • SHU95

      I was thinking the same, well said

  • VinBick

    Coach Willard may have to sit Carrington and let him spell Powell at the two spot rather than letting him continue to run amuck as a poor point guard who too often is out of control racing down court or crossing half court and hugging the left sideline where he can be trapped by defenders.

    Powell and Cale are more talented than Carrington, and Gordon is a steady point guard. Walker coming back cannot happen soon enough.

    • shufaninva

      Gordon is greatly improved, but steady? Not sure of that. He made a few huge mistakes yesterday.

  • Mike Walsh

    Any word on when Jordon Walker will return?

  • Mike Walsh

    I don’t think it’s right to trash KC as he was asked to take over duties in a position that he is not naturally suited for, KC is a good SG. For all the pessimists out there, there is such a thing as a good loss and losing to Rutgers on their court qualifies. The Hall moved up to 24 on RPI and only fell to 18 on KenPom after yesterday’s loss. The loss at RU can be a springboard for this team. Not long ago Villanova lost to us in the BET, they responded by winning a national championship.

    • cali jack

      Agree its unfortunate that KC is being forced to play a position he’s not suited for .He’s a really good SG. Responsibility for that falls on KW due to a poor recruiting job following IW recruiting class of 6 top recruits.Only recruits since then who’ll help us in a meaningful way this year are MP and MC.No PG recruits since then we can count on this year which Metro NY is full of every year.Poor recruiting job by KW.

      • Mike Walsh

        Can’t agree with your opinion that KW did a poor recruiting job, immediately after Duval chose Duke we landed Jordan Walker a true point guard. The plan was to ease Walker into the PG spot, JW’s injury put a wrench into that plan. I love KC, but, he is a victim of recruiting younger more athletic players. I believe that the coach shifted KC to PG was to enable more playing time. Reality is that MC, MP and DR are better shooters than KC. Our senior are a 4, two 3s and one 2 star. We got two 4 star freshmen and a 4 star transfer. We will be starting four 4 star players and one 3 next year. Tough balancing act for KW, especially as KC has work so hard.

        • cali jack

          The point is he didn’t successfully. recruit a PG who we can count on this year despite what his efforts were.Its not about this other stuff you mention.

          • Jason

            I agree it is a different story if Walker isn’t injured. I think recruiting has been good. Next year we’ll be swimming in guards and it’ll still hurt if any of them goes down.

            Besides, I do not think PG depth cost us this game. Or are you arguing that KC should not be starting at PG and we should’ve acquired one who could move KC or MP to the bench? That’s a pretty hard sell but not an argument beyond consideration.

          • Mike Walsh

            I love KC, but, think the pressure to run the team does not fit his personality. With the talent we’ve recruited the last 2 years, I feel that KC would shine as a SG off the bench. A healthy Jordan Walker would help to facilitate this. I truly believe that KC’s stats would be better as the first man off the bench, as a SG.

          • Matty P

            I don’t believe this coaching staff would have Carrington coming off the bench as a senior. I think if Walker hadn’t gotten hurt there would be a more likely scenario where Walker is the first guard off the bench where he likely gets 10-15 mins a game mostly giving Carrington a break or possibly playing next to Carrington for a couple stretches when they need to give Powell a break.

          • Mike Walsh

            I agree that the coaching staff will not make the change. I believe that KC would put up better stats and contribute more if he were moved back to his natural position.

          • Matty P

            I agree that he would most likely have better stats. I think the coaching staff finds it more valuable to increase the time that Powell has on the court vs playing Carrington out of position. I’m not sure if it’s the best decision, but I guess we’ll see once conference play starts and they get challenged by better players on a more consistent basis.

          • Mike Walsh

            The success of recruiting has a lot to do with fan support. Look at Wichita State, Gonzaga, Creighton, and so on. These are not “Elite” schools, their fanbase creates an atmosphere where players want to play. Fill the Rock with rabid fans, win some games and the recruits will follow.

    • VinBick

      Mike, you are too kind. Carrington has been praised for the games when he has played the role he is charged with performing.

      Can you defend him taking 17 shots yesterday? Have you seen him race out of control time and again? Why does Powell get the ball from the point guard so sparingly in the second half? Seniors are expected to grow and adjust and follow direction from the coaching staff.

      This team is so dangerous, they are scarey when they make the extra pass and play unselfishly. Carrington is NOT the go to guy on this team.

  • fouline

    This was one of those good/bad losses. Bad because we lost. And good because it underlines 2 problems the team has had for years. foul shooting and confidence. They brick so many shots they could put up a dorm. And they lose confidence and poise and start with the street game – bad shots and turnovers. STOP IT. Ok, that needed to be said. Next!

    • SHU95

      Nicly put, fouline

  • SHU95

    Nicely put, per usual…

  • Jason

    First off I just hate losing to them, so this will always feel worse than it is in reality. There are volumes I have to say (which I’ve typed and deleted). The bottom line is I love this team and just want them to play up to their potential.

    • Mike Walsh

      Perfectly said!! Too many people react without thinking. Trashing players or the coach for a misstep is wrong.

  • slats33

    Carrington had a bad game. That happens. The problem lies with Willard. If he’s not going to be a good x’s and o’s coach (he’s not), he has to have these kids prepared. And I’m sorry but there is no way to spin this as a positive. Willard is compensated as a big time ncaa coach and he should be held to that standard. $1.56 Million this year alone. He also got a $160,000 bonus for winning the BET. He’s got players. It’s on his shoulders.

  • z06

    I love all the comments about the Hall,when they win everybody is Happy,just the opposite when we loose.But honestly when Sanogo scores 10 pts you would think the Hall Wins and what is the issue with the big 7ft. Guy on the bench is he that bad lmk thanks

  • Bob Murphy

    Disappointing loss to a program like Rutgers.

    However, as many including myself have been posting here for a while, this Seton Hall team is inconsistent due to the guard play distributing (or not distributing) the ball and foul shooting. That inconsistency won’t go away, it is just a shortcoming that needs to be minimized. Because of it, they could literally win every game from now until March, and then lose the first game of the NCAAs. Or sneak in as a low seed and go to the final 4. Inconsistency – which is typically not indicative of a team with as many rotation seniors as ours – makes them a fun, but frustrating watch. They are a bunch of very good athletes, usually put forth max effort and seem a tight knit group. I’m looking forward to watching how the season transpires.

    Unfortunately the injury to Walker has taken away his opportunity to get minutes in the schedule before the league games start. It will be hard to work him in now should he come back soon, especially at the end of games.

    Losing to a struggling program like Rutgers has been is tough for alumni to swallow. But, it’s one game. Let’s build to March and hope the inconsistency described above is minimized and let’s us win some games in the NCAAs.

  • Joe Schmoe

    Boy, Pirate Pride sure does turn into Pirate Panic awfully quick! Yes it was a bad loss, but bad losses happen! this is sports!

  • Mike Walsh

    For all the alarmists, read Jerry Carino’s comments about the effects of the loss at Rutgers. Kenpom says #18 and Jerry says #19. http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2017/12/18/jerry-carinos-associated-press-top-25-basketball-ballot-case-keeping-seton-hall/960170001/

  • Joe Schmoe

    #23 Seton Hall Pirates….. MOVING ON!

    • Mike Walsh

      #22 in USA Today and #18 on Kenpom.

      • Joe Schmoe

        the AP# is the number thats always quoted.

        • Mike Walsh

          Kenpom is the only number that the NCAA selection committee cares about.

  • Matty P

    Disappointing loss, but I do think that Pikiell has improved the Rutgers program and they play well at home as evidenced by them keeping up with teams like Michigan State and Florida State.

    I think that Willard has to move away from the line change substitutions. The one problem is that it’s typically a group of only the younger players with no upperclassman and I think it also breaks the flow of the team. I think that he should use the guys on the bench, but I feel there’s a better way to get them mixed into the game.

    Felt like the turnovers in the second half killed them. They ended the game with 18 and they only had 4 in the first half. So to turn the ball over 14 times in a half is unacceptable and a good way to lose games. Also felt like they weren’t being as aggressive in the second half and settling for jump shots or 3 point attempts instead of trying to get to the basket.